Video: Communication Strategies to Navigate a Banking Crisis

Thank you hello and welcome to banking transform the top podcast in retail banking I’m your host Jim Marous founder and CEO of the Digital Bank Report and co-publisher of The Financial Brand.

We are right now in Uncharted Territory with today’s economic uncertainty consumers are concerned about the safety of their bank and credit union account and don’t know where to turn.

Open and honest communication is only the start as a bank crisis continues to unfold financial institutions must provide resources and answers in real time to help consumers and employees ease the stress and to help your bank differentiate itself in a Marketplace as a trust through the advisor during a time of need.

Crisis communication does not start now it should have started years ago with ongoing communication this can ensure that customer loyalty and potentially even attracting customers is possible.

My guest in the Banking Transform podcast today is Steven Ramirez CEO of the communications agency Beyond the Arc he shares what financial institutions should say and share and how they should communicate during these tumultuous times.

Boy it’s incredible how quickly public confidence can erode inside an entire vital industry like banking the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and the rapid descendant evaluations of several financial institutions is a warning to all companies big and small that they are not immune to the crisis.

I have known today’s guest for more than a decade meeting Steven first that I think Finovate San Francisco and keeping in touch through the years as he’s helped Banks and Credit Unions of all sizes with their Communications and strategies before we start Steven can you share a bit about your background and what you’ve seen in the industry that has changed the most in the last 20 years.

20 years? I’m not that old I can only talk to you about the last couple years you know I’m a young guy there we go then you built Beyond the Arc back in the day yeah that’s right I’m back when I was in high school so Jim thanks for having me on I think that look there’s two things that are the probably the biggest Mega trends that have impacted banking right one and you and I have both been there for this one is the complete transformation and focus on customer experience right when we first started talking about this 10 years ago this was it was hard to even articulate what the issues are that is now front and center it doesn’t mean that all banks and fintech companies are doing it exactly right but it’s definitely it’s definitely on the radar and then I think a key part of that is the way that we use data for customer insights to be able to fuel decisions right.

So I think that there’s been this growing you know this growing momentum behind better customer understanding and experience that’s what I see as kind of like the essence of where banking is today and I think that there’s some threats with this current with this current financial situation so it seems common sense that financial institutions both Banks and Credit Unions would have a crisis Communications plan in place at all times but at least to me I may be wrong it seems like many organizations were caught somewhat flat-footed when Silicon Valley Bank failed what happened you know it’s I think that each of the banks that are going through that have gone through this in the course of the last month or two and are now going through it have different you know sort of nuanced situations but I do think that there’s been a that there’s been a miscalculation on how consumers and more broadly other stakeholders including investors the Press you know government officials how they would react to certain news and I think that there’s really out of sync in terms of some of the plans and strategies and how those are delivered to key audiences.

Well you know it’s interesting one thing we talked about when Silicon Valley Bank happened was how freaking fast it all took place yeah I mean the instantaneous nature of everything in banking we kind of didn’t think about that in the way we do now because it last time something like this happened was in 2007-2008 and so all of a sudden we realized very quickly that bad news travels fast via the Internet and Twitter and things of this nature but that people can react to bad news instantaneously taking out their money out of their bank account in a way and speeds in which a marketing department can hardly intend to respond in time and in place so does that change the Dynamics of what financial institutions must put in place with regard to communication that the type of things they say but just as importantly on channels where they say it.

I mean if you think that you know something can be said on Twitter right now about me and I’d have to respond within minutes I’m not really prepared yes and Jim I know that I open my Twitter account in 2009 and I know that yours was probably around that same time so we have been there since the since the beginning on this and I think that social media absolutely has changed the game again not in nothing that that you or I would be shocked about but we’re seeing those trends that we spotted really come home to roost and if you’re not ready to act instantaneously then then you lose I think it is as clear as that and I think that the implication is you have to be prepared right so you’re not just making up answers on the spot you know this is really a a year a year-round program of how you engage with your customers and other key audiences that when an issue comes up it is just part of a larger strategy that you are already implementing every single day of the year.

Very interesting point Steven we talked about this a little bit before we went on the air that when we talk about crisis Communications we always traditionally thought of if this than that it’s bigger than that I think especially in financial services where it’s not something you can just start today it’s something you had to have had in place before or at least put in place now for whatever happened in the future what are some of the foundational components that financial institutions should have in place to be prepared for whatever may come up on the horizon so I think that having a clear Communications plan is critical and I don’t think that that’s something that you relegate to your PR department right that’s not just something that you hand off I mean these messages have to be delivered by the senior most Executives the CEO and the executive team they are leading that and then that’s going out through every single employee in the bank right like they are all the ones who are carrying the message and.

So you have to have a us a vision and a strategy for who you are what you stand for and most importantly how you deliver on the promise of trust you know so how can how can customers trust you that has to be the essence of your of the Bedrock that you have and then that’s what gets incorporated into this communication strategy and gets executed across many different channels but it comes from this is this Crystal Clear understanding of the relationship that you have with customers so over the years you’ve been working with financial institutions that I know of building communication strategies a lot of it had to do with branding a lot of had to do with the experience a lot of it had to do with this daily interactions to keep the customer aware of what you’re doing and for the finance institution to be aware of what the customer wants how has that changed from the perspective of channels that you’re using and what you’re actually saying is you’re working with your clients what are you emphasizing inside and outside this whole crisis management situation.

Well I think that from a Communications perspective there was there used to be an idea that you could develop a separate message for each audience right you could send your you could send one message to your high net worth clients and another message to your business clients and and yet another to you know other key other key stakeholders well that idea that you that you as the bank can control where the message goes is out the window and so you have to realize that it really is kind of an integrated strategy that needs to come to come together and realizing that as soon as you talk to anyone you’re talking to everyone and so that is a very that’s a very difficult challenge to be able to to navigate and I think that Jim what’s happened is because of the challenge it’s caused some banks and some and some media advisors just say say as little as possible control the message don’t share beyond what you have beyond what you have to and I think that that’s been that’s been devastatingly wrong in the in the communications that I’ve seen in the in the course of the last two months.

So that’s interesting she should say that because I was just going to get to that is that you know in the past or when you look at this a lot of Institutions say you know what it’s not us our stocks not plummeting our stock our company’s not going out of business we’re not in this case Silicon Valley Bank but the reality is you can’t just put your head in the sand can you you advise your clients to do something even though it wasn’t them correct yes absolutely because I think that every single every single Bank customer of every size is wondering the same basic message is my money safe right that is that is doesn’t that get back to I don’t know 2 000 years of banking yeah right and I think that that that that that even though it’s not happening to your bank or to your customers your customers are seeing these same messages they’re seeing them on social media they’re seeing it on television people even at the grocery store you know are talking about did you see the news right like these this these messages really are everywhere and I think that it does get to the very essence of banking relationships it’s the this idea of trust you know what are we doing on a on a day in day out year in year out to reinforce this kind of trusting relationship that requires a lot of focus and a lot of and a lot of attention and to be honest Jim I think a lot of banks take those relationships for granted.

I think they say you know what we have a great relationship with our customers end of story and it’s like no the story is not over it’s continue it continues to have these new events and that relationship fits within that that broader context so let’s take it to the Tactical level for a second here with your clients when Silicon Valley Bank happened or when things since then have happened what have you recommended to the clients that you currently had so people you already had an engagement strategy or a conversation and communication strategy in place what do you recommend to them during this period so two things I think that and I and I’ve said this not only to clients but I’ve shared this widely on my own social media channels so this is this this may not come as a as a surprise you know I think first and foremost I think that you have to be proactive in telling your story of safety and soundness and why your bank is still the right choice for customers and I think that goes to the the depth of the relationship but also from a brand perspective.

What’s the value proposition why uniquely you because I think that what we’re seeing in this environment is that people are questioning those questioning those choices so that’s one thing is to be proactive with you know just reinforcing the relationship but the second is to is to do that across all channels that this really does require a reminder not just in a press release but this is a this is messaging for your website this is messaging for your emails and perhaps most importantly these are talking points that need to get into the hands of anyone who’s client facing so my strong recommendation is to be ahead of the curve be communicating about the strength and security and value proposition of your bank and not waiting for a problem to to arise so when you first get engaged with a brand new client how do you filter out what they think of themselves versus what really is possibly true.

It could be different I mean I’ve worked for financial institutions we had a great a great thought of who we thought we were but it was very clear that the customers didn’t really see us that way when you engage with a brand new client how do you find out that Gap and how do you deal with it Jim that is a great that is a great question I can tell you’ve been there right that that really speaks to it unfortunately so yes well and I so and I think that there’s two I think that there’s two main ways that you do that one is I think an investment in customer research so that is the first thing on a new engagement like for example if we’re helping to reconceive of how you take products to Market or we’re thinking about the value proposition for the brand the very first thing is to do a comprehensive research program right and I think that particularly for community and Regional Banks I think that there’s a mistake that many banks skip that step I think that they feel like we already know the answers we’re good customers love us yeah customers love us we have great relationships what else do you need to know.

I’ll tell you right like that’s the like so that is one is really that that research search and a very close companion is voice of the customer so what are you doing to be able to systematically gain in the customer’s own words feedback about their experience are you are you soliciting that are you doing surveys are you monitoring social media do you have a way for your Frontline Bankers to be able to record to take notes on comments that people make these are the things that are I think contribute to the customer intelligence that leads to the customer strategy and Communications so when you’re talking about Chrysler and again I’m gonna get back to this crisis mode and you talked about you know you got to get in front of this you got to reassure the customers that you’re taking care of you’re getting for insurer employees you’re good it what’s the balance because I would think that you run the risk of you know if you keep on saying you’re safe and you’ve said over and over again there’s gonna be some people that think why are you spending this much time telling me you’re safe are you really safe and then if you don’t do enough you get into that challenge how do you deal with that whole balance of too much versus not enough communication yes so I think that that the key difference is in authenticity.

I think authenticity what that means is that you are believable and you’re believable not just because you’re saying the same thing over and over again but because you have a pattern of behavior that backs it up right so you didn’t just pop up today or in the in the course of the last two weeks and and start to share these messages that you have an ongoing program where you have re you understand these key themes and you’ve been continuing to promote them in a variety of different ways I think that that is I think that that is how and so in that environment I don’t think that you can over communicate I think that I think the the floor is yours if you will to be able to bring those bring those messages you know and I will just say that that is while that’s important with many audiences it is particular important with the Press right and I think that hap and this is another area where I see a huge gap on behalf of of Banks and financial institutions where they are not regularly engaging with the press or in very limited self-promoting ways and so when an issue comes up they don’t have the they don’t have the trust of the press to be able to believe to be believable when they make these statements and so that comes from this regular engagement of of sharing information and you know Jim sometimes that can be uncomfortable right I mean sometimes you can be you can be on the hot spot but but that level of discomfort I think Fades away very quickly when you realize how it reinforces the trust and the relationship with with all of your key stakeholders boy what’s very clear here is that those organizations that haven’t done a really good job of being empathetic of being authentic of being transparent really working from a major major disadvantage during Times Like These when consumers are looking Beyond simply are you convenient located you know that is deeper than that that they go geez you know what they’ve messed up on a couple things I kind of ignored it because A bank’s a bank but all of a sudden it becomes top and center with regard to the overall relationship and I I think what theme you continually come back to is you got to start today for the crisis from tomorrow for tomorrow because you can’t just build a crisis Communications plan as a standalone component or else you’re not going to bring out any authenticity to the table you know Steven you know as I said we’ll we’ll disagree on the the 20 years being 20 years or almost 20 years or longer than me whatever it may be but from a channel strategy what channels should be used and is there any challenge that should be avoided with regard to crisis communication or are the same rules in place as they are for all Communications so I am a believer of meeting customers and meeting external stakeholders where where they are and so they get to decide how and where they receive messages right so you may decide that you want to use a particular channel of communication but you’re going to miss people who are not in that place and so so Jim I believe that the the that the bank has to impact every single touch point with customers I really truly believe that so I think that that’s not just that’s not just sending email messages or letters and notices or website or mobile app mobile app messages or social media or press releases or customer service scripts or executive talking points it’s all of those it really genuinely has to be all of those and yes you do have to have on the Tactical part you do have to have a crisis Communications plan you do have to have clear sort of lines of communication and and protocols for dealing with with unforeseen situations because those can happen 24 7.
that has to be part of it your Executives do need to have media training that is a key Gap I think in many of these organizations is that media training but it also has to be pushed out to Frontline Bankers because they may be the ones who are carrying them carrying the message so many many touch points many different messages and I think that the why you need someone to advise you on strategy is getting the right message to the right channel so that it reaches the right people well it’s interesting because as I was thinking about what you were saying if I got a message on four different channels they all said basically the same thing but maybe in slightly different ways that’s going to build my trust that they believe in what they’re saying if I only get it from email and I don’t get any other channel there’s part of me even on a product sales message that says do they really believe what they’re saying are they simply just checking off something in the box so let’s take a short break here and recognize the sponsor to this podcast we’d like to thank our sponsor Microsoft see how Microsoft can help unlock new opportunities at speed and scale through innovative business processes delivering differentiated customer experiences across channels innovating new products and services and redefining new ways of thinking find out more at microsoft.com backslash financial services this show is sponsored by FIS when it comes to Global Payments there’s no standard consumer or one-size-fits-all solution each Market’s payment landscape is unique and so are its consumers so how do you decide what’s relevant for your business and your customers start with a Global Payments report from FIS with data on more than 48 000 consumers covering 40 Global markets the Global Payments report breaks down how consumers pay today both online and the point of sale and how their behaviors will change over time in the future get up to speed with a fast changing payments landscape and position your business for future growth download the Global Payments report today by visiting worldpay.globalpaymentreport.com FIS advancing the way the world pays Banks and invests welcome back to banking transformed so I’m joined today by Steven Ramirez CEO of the communications firm Beyond The Arc we have been discussing the recent crisis in the banking industry and the communication challenges and opportunities that this crisis presents so we’re often talking about how crisis communication is trying to avoid a problem I’ve read recently from some of the stuff you’ve been posting on LinkedIn and Twitter and other places that this can actually be an opportunity of a sort what do you mean by that I think that and we’ve seen this actually in in research when you ask ask customers about their experiences with companies if they’ve gone through potentially challenging or difficult times with you and they have emerged to a positive place there’s actually a deepening of the relationship right they they they they appreciate you more as a result of those challenges and part of that you can imagine is it’s it’s top of mind and they’ve seen how you as an organization have have have taken on this difficult Challenge and been able to succeed so I think that there’s even in some of these crisis situations there is a silver lining that actually leads to a deepening of the customer relationship but I think that that even more even more tactically than that I think that you know the the banking industry at this moment in time in today’s economy you know there are different forces at work customers have different needs we’re seeing different forces at play for example with high rates this is an opportunity to re-engage with customers and to and to recast what you have to offer to better meet their needs today so so I think that this this all sort of prompts certain conversations that can happen with customers so what you’re actually seeing is when the rest of the organizations are simply doing crisis Communications if you’re reaching out and saying we’re going to understand you better and provide you services that you want based on information we have you’re actually building that credibility that you’re trying to do with Communications about the crisis correct absolutely and I’ll give you an example of that in the in the the Commercial Banking space right so instead of just continuing with your typical message which is we have products we have sweeps products so we have cash management products we have other treasury Services we got products you need products we got products we got products and we got lots of lots of them but what if instead you said you know in today’s environment with interest rates Rising cash flow is more important than ever we have these as part of an integrated you know cash flow management you know solution you know we have these ways did you know that you may have rather than worrying whether or not you have FDIC Insurance did you know that there may be other solutions for liquidity that you can actually earn more interest or earn higher returns with this risk trade-off and give you easy access to your money right these are the things that liquidity cash management cash flow these are things that are higher on the radar at this particular point in time and there’s an opportunity to engage with that in this example for example with with small business or commercial commercial customers so we’ve talked a lot about our Communications being almost like an outward Mark what I’m gonna say a marketing or or PR area Communications to customers into stakeholders into the community but you also touched upon the fact that employees are an important component of this they they worry just like customers do about what’s going on in their bank but they also as I understand it from what you’ve written they also provide a tool for communication how does that work how do you alleviate the employees concerns and then leverage them to help you communicate the security and safety of your organization Jim aren’t they the most important Communication channel they are the one they are the ones who you can at the home office you can create all the marketing materials you want but at the end of the day it’s going to be a banker either you know at the teller line behind the desk at the contact center those are the ones who are going to be talking to customers full stop that’s your most important Communication channel and if they are not convinced then how can they convince anyone else I mean they’re not they’re not you didn’t hire them to be actors right they’re going to speak from the heart which is why you have them and so that means you have to really understand and you talked about empathy and the and the empathy of understanding what are our employees going through in this in this process right particularly for some of the banks that where where the crisis really has hit right so they are uncertain they’re livelihood and the and the the livelihood of their family is potentially at risk this is what’s going through their minds it may not even be a crisis I mean we’ve seen this even in in Bank mergers right like where there’s big change anytime there’s big corporate change then it really impacts employees personally and and that we have to realize that from from a Communications and employee experience perspective that if we don’t support employees how will they be able to support our customers said so well you know since we have an interview with Liz Wolverton from Synovus Bank Jesus a few months ago now and she was talking about the closing of branches and she I said what’s the most important component of closing a branches he goes you have to make sure the employees are on board because if they’re not those branches are being closed these employees are not going to do you any favors because they think their jobs are at risk but if you help these employees understand the logic and show them they’re part of the future they will go out of their way to support you and it seems so rudimentary but we all forget it we forget that the employees every day go to work going is ChatGPT going to replace me is this Branch going to be closed and they’re going to replace me is a merge you’re going to take my job immediately from under me you know how do I protect myself well if you partner if you’re showing you’re going to partner with the employee they can be your biggest asset as you said so you know see even I’ve known you for a long time and and you’re a third party provider for communication strategies for financial institutions what are the advantages of working with a third-party provider such as Beyond the Arc in creating effective Communications Beyond a crisis plan and more importantly what blind spots do you see when you walk into any financial institution you go boy I’m bringing value as opposed to them going alone so the number one thing that we bring is the outside in perspective right we understand what it’s like to be inside the bank and actually Jim and some of our some of our client relationships I mean we’ve actually worked on on premise with our clients over a course of long periods of time so we understand what it’s like inside but we can bring that outside perspective to them and that’s what no Bank unfortunately they’re still just not able to get themselves out of their own four walls if you will to understand what’s happening outside and and as a result there is the echo chambers that just ha and the commonly held beliefs that everybody knows and and we get to ask really stupid questions like how do you know that yeah what’s the background for that conclusion have you seen that change over time these are being able to question in a safe way because there are people in the organization who want to be able to raise these questions but they generally are not empowered to do so or they don’t feel that they are they feel that by by questioning that battle of ideas is not welcome in all organizations and so being able to have someone who is a who is an advisor an outsider who can is there to support you but also to challenge you and to challenge your thinking and as I said earlier to bring data and research and insights to the process I think that is why you want a trusted third party as part of your as part of your team supporting you so it was funny you use this term or very close to this term that you got to get out of their own way we see this with every third party provider we haven’t I was talking to somebody today and another podcast around the new account opening process that everybody wants that three to five minutes and then they buy the service they buy the solution they the solution comes in and they immediately get in their own way by saying we need this to stay the way it always was and you go you’ve just broken what we came in to fix because you wouldn’t let go of things what do you see as you visit organizations what are some of the ways that bankers get in their own way when it comes to the communications plan what do they kind of hold on to for dear life because it’s changed and it’s not the way they should be doing things going forward is it channel strategy is it the way they communicate is it maybe even the front end research that you ask them to do I think that there’s definitely there’s definitely some continue to be some areas of weakness I think that one is the dreaded Bank speak right they they speak in a language that is just is just alien to everyone outside of banking and this is not just retail this is also this is also small business Commercial High net worth and I’ve been in many conversations where people say oh our customers are very sophisticated they understand all of this right and I’m like yes and as a matter of fact I’m very sophisticated too but I don’t have time for it I want to clear concise simple that is still in short supply in terms of in terms of communications I I think the other I think the other kind of key key issue here is only considering what your bank is doing as if you’re the only one doing it and I think that that is a huge blind spot and as and as the number one thing that needs to be overcome because because they’re just not looking at competitors and if they are you know the Regional Bank is thinking about the competitors down the block right and and I’m saying let’s look at the national fintech you know Neo banks that are trying to attract your most valuable customers and siphon those off right like that’s just a different conversation that that frankly people just had not thought about before so I think that again this is how those these are some of those steps there are definitely some gaps and maybe a first step and this is a common first project that we have with the bank is doing that kind of assessment right like let’s look at your Communications let’s look at the customer Journey let’s look at the personas that you’re trying to reach and see if there is alignment between all those different factors interesting because you know it’s it’s that investment that as financial assistance we tend to want to ignore or avoid or or short change but it’s the foundation upon which everything else is is built you know you you mentioned about the you know you don’t know what you don’t know and we’ve talked about this before in the show where we have a lot of organizations that don’t realize the amount of Silent nutrition that’s happening that you know my my business bank doesn’t realize that my real primary finances is Paypal my retail consumer bank doesn’t realize that my major savings plan is with acorns and not with them and not with any Traditional Bank but that’s all money that’s being taken from what could have been their Solutions and put elsewhere that’s the the diminishment of loyalty the diminishment of trust the spreading my spreading my risk around that really is the situation we’re talking about you know who am I going to really stand up for you know the fact that my bank has continuously been in the spotlight for not positive things in the marketplace now I’m lucky in that I can peel back those layers sometimes but can every consumer or do other consumers go you know what I can’t deal with them anymore because because they did this to me you know when you look at what you’ve said and and it’s so important number one as I understand it is Crisis communication starts way before the crisis that if you don’t have great Communications in place you haven’t built any really good trust you haven’t really built the the brand that you think you have number two don’t assume you know your customers think because the banking industry has changed in other words if you think everybody thinks you have the nicest Bank in the world that may have been back when everybody visits your branch that they don’t do anymore and so they don’t know as soon as he’s still there or if she isn’t still there I think third that it comes back to what we talk about quite a bit in this podcast which is it gets down to data and analytics you know you if the more you can personalize the message the more likely the consumer is going to stick with you and I I think the most important is that you you need an outside partner that’s going to help you avoid those those bad pitfalls take advantage of those shortcuts and move forward at scale so finally one question that I should ask every time IQ I interview somebody in the communications industry right now including myself how do you see chat GPT helping or hurting this Communications process well I think that that is a really important consideration I I think that there’s no doubt that generative AI is changing literally it’s not an exaggeration it’s changing everything right and and we’ve seen even in the news even in the news this week you know companies now reporting that their quarterly earnings are down because they can now see the erosion that’s being created by consumers migrating to chat gbt as a as a solution that was solved in a different way you know by that by that company so so I think that this is absolutely absolutely key but on the other hand I think that where generative AI is at this particular moment there’s a lot of noise and there’s a lot of garbage and so it’s adding to it’s it’s adding to the Clutter of what you need to to break through and I think that one of the things that that generative AI does very well is it creates prose that sounds really nice you know I think I think about it as a lot of like bad College writing you know you look at it and like all the all the sentences are grammatical but it just doesn’t it doesn’t convey any real any real significant information so I think that there’s I think that there’s you know some some real opportunities but we’re but we’re certainly not not there yet Jim I want to do this before we wrap up I want to just you know just just reflect on your point about diminishment I think this is absolutely you’ve really hit on a key key element here I just want to say a tail a quick Tale of Two Banks you know we support one of the top five banks that know this issue around diminishment had a had a special initiative specifically targeted to bring data and insights and communication strategies to be able to solve for it right so it’s it’s on the radar the top Banks see that right that’s that’s really key the tale of the Second Bank is a two billion dollar Community Bank that when we first started working with them their first access was trying to get data out of the core to do pie charts you know now they have data scientists on you know four years later they have data scientists models in production and have deployed 10 new fintech Solutions right so I think that these trends that we’re seeing in the industry can be addressed by community and Regional Banks there are ways to be able to get in the game and if you don’t again I think that lots of these harms that we talked about right like that it’s it’s not being close to your customer which which ties back to how you fare when there really is a crisis you know what you said it very well I think what’s really exciting and I I’m getting really as my team knows I’m getting really jazzed about this over the last six to 12 months some of the most exciting things are being done by the local community and Regional Banks they are doing some amazing things the partnering with outside organizations for Speed and scale of solutions for Innovation for new ideas and for deployment of those ideas is second to none you you don’t have to you don’t have to turn the whole semi if you got a pickup truck that you’re you’re driving in it and it’s really exciting Steven thank you so much for being on the show today I I wish I had called you a month ago to talk about the same subject but I had the feeling this whole crisis Communications process is not going to go away anytime soon so appreciate what it is before we end how does an organization get a hold of you if for no other reason than to have a conversation about where they could start if they wanted to start start with our home page you know beyondthearc.com and I always say it’s Beyond the Arc with the c you know good point yes yeah and so it’s beyondthearc.com and where do they read what your thoughts are an ongoing basis so so we’re very active on our blog but also on LinkedIn and Twitter and you know I love to engage in Social so please you know follow reach out because I think that that’s where this comes from right it comes from being part of this Global Community trying to solve these these these challenges I will leave one last word to all the financial institutions that listen to this it doesn’t do any good to do all the other things you’re doing if you haven’t got to trust the customer because then you’re talking to an empty room there’s a lot of things to be done right now Communications can’t be left to chance again Steven thank you so much for being on the show thank you Jim thanks for listening banking transform the winner of three international awards for podcast Excellence if you enjoyed today’s interview please take some time to give our show a five star rating also be sure to catch my articles on The Financial Brand and check out the research you’re doing for the Digital Bank Report this has been a production of Evergreen podcast a special thank you to our senior producer Leah hassage audio engineer Sean wilhofen and video producer will Prince I’m here host Jim Marous until next time remember proactive communication during a banking crisis can mitigate risk provide comfort and actually help grow your organization